Two Designers Walk Into A Bar

Episode 17: Denver, Los Angeles and Stories of Designing for the Olympic Games

Released July 21, 2021
© 2021 Two Designers Media, LLC

Speaker 0: Well, oddly enough.

Speaker 1: Well, wait. That is Yeah.

Speaker 0: Oh, go. You have more to say.

Speaker 1: I I do. Yeah. You're not listening. What do you do you say? Dang. 
Okay. Dang. Okay. So let's yeah. We can we can do that again.

Speaker 0: Welcome to two designers

Speaker 1: walking to a bar A place where pop culture creatives discover design icons that make us tick, and we share a few cocktails in the process.

Speaker 0: Yep.

Speaker 1: Nothing brings the world together. Every couple of years like the Olympic

Speaker 0: With such a large stage and a chance to influence audiences around the globe, designers jump at the chance to create something great.

Speaker 1: Today, we're going to bring you a couple of stories from Gamespass discussing the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.

Speaker 0: Mix your favorite flaming cocktail, arrange yourself in the proper luge position for easy listening, and join us on our Victory Lab. As we celebrate returning to the bar.

Speaker 1: Okay, Todd. So we're back in a bar once again. And you know, I was thinking, what better place is there than a bar to watch sports with friends?

Speaker 0: You know, no other better place, I think.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And the only thing better than watching one type of sport is watching multiple sports. Right.

Speaker 0: Multiple and strippers.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 0: Okay. That's

Speaker 1: No. No. Because that would be a distraction with what I'm talking about. You know, some sports have streakers That's kinda like a streamer. That's

Speaker 0: true. That's true. And yeah. Curlers and all sorts of things like the Olympics as all those kind of oddball sports in there. And that's what we're gonna talk about today.

Speaker 1: Yes. The Olympics around the horizon they're about to kick off in Tokyo, Japan. And so, yeah, I think it's perfect because it's such a wonderful stage for designers to really showcase their skills to the

Speaker 0: world. Yeah. I've been digging the Tokyo Olympics logos and graphics that I've seen so far. And I think we both have some other past games that we're gonna highlight the branding systems of Donatella.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Now my tail is actually going to be a little bit more of an interesting one in that while it's certainly a tail of design and it's a tail about the Olympics. Mhmm. It's really more of a tail centered around a town that was on the international stage for a little while, but then they weren't. 
And we'll we'll get into the reason why it's it's kind of an interesting backstory. And it and it talks a little bit about the selection process and and how they determine where the picks are going to be.

Speaker 0: Oh, yeah. Interesting. Well, my tail also has some interesting selection criteria. And I chose one that is so of the period that it happened in and highly influential with its brand system. And its graphics, and it was highly touted as sort of the beginning of modern Olympics as we know it. 
So you start and tell me where you are. Where where what city are you in with your Olympics, Elliot?

Speaker 1: Well, maybe I should start with the year.

Speaker 0: Okay.

Speaker 1: Because that might start to start to drop a little bit of a hint in here. So, Todd, and and to all the listeners out there who have listened to our our past episodes. And and we thank both of you from the bottom of our hearts.

Speaker 0: Yes, we do. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Folks know I'm a little bit obsessed. I don't know if I'd call it well, I'll call it obsessed. You can call it whatever you like. Freaking. I I have a fascination or I have undue attention focused on the year nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 0: Yep. That is true. We we did a whole episode on that year --

Speaker 1: Yes. -- in

Speaker 0: our last season. Right?

Speaker 1: Yes. Correct. That's

Speaker 0: what we call it. Hopefully, we'll call it Cross Promote.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Hopefully, it's not our last season, man.

Speaker 0: It's in our well, in our previous season.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you. I was I was a little worried. I was thinking, you know something? I don't.

Speaker 0: I'll re I'll retake that. We did a whole episode on nineteen seventy six in our previous season.

Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. Yes. We did. We

Speaker 0: did.

Speaker 1: I think we should just keep all this in here and let the chips fall away, man.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Because it could go either way.

Speaker 1: So kids, for those of you who may not remember this far back, the Olympics, the summer and winter Olympics, picks used to actually be in the same year.

Speaker 0: Mhmm.

Speaker 1: So they were in two different cities like they are now, but they would always be held in the same year, six months apart. So the Winter Olympics in nineteen seventy six. We're in Innsbrook, Austria. Okay? Now, that in and of itself is not particularly interesting. 
Obviously, it's Austria. It's in China, Europe. It's in Western Europe. It's known for skiing. It's got mountains. 
It's like Okay. Fair enough. But the interesting thing is that in nineteen seventy six, that was only twelve years -- Uh-huh. -- after the last time Ginsburg had hosted the Olympics. I

Speaker 0: didn't remember that. That's funny. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So so something's up. Right? So how did they get the games again so quickly? Okay, Todd. 
So I'm going to unpack a story here for you that's about both Olympic's success and Olympic failure. And of course, anything involved in the Olympics is on a world stage.

Speaker 0: Right. Right.

Speaker 1: Okay. So we know where future Olympics are getting held. Right? So we know after Tokyo, you know, there's gonna be a Olympics in Paris, you know, it's coming back to LA in a few years, etcetera, etcetera. So going back to China, the planning starts to happen in advance. 
Right? And and the reason is because, of course, they have to build everything out. They have to fund raise. They have to you know, among other things, get the citizens on board with the fact that they're lives are going to be disrupted for

Speaker 0: a

Speaker 1: little while while they're -- Mhmm. -- their, you know, city gets Olympic Olympics ready. Here's a question for you taking a quick tangent

Speaker 0: Okay.

Speaker 1: When the Olympics were in Atlanta in, you know, nineteen ninety six, did you prior to the Olympic well, first of all, you know, were living in the south, did you go to the Olympics?

Speaker 0: I did not.

Speaker 1: Did you happen to visit Atlanta when they were prepping for the Olympics? I did not. It was torn apart.

Speaker 0: Was it really?

Speaker 1: Oh, yes. They had to build a lot of different stuff downtown and -- Uh-huh. -- just the high highways and all of this different stuff. So I can understand. The the only reason I bring that up is I wasn't living there, but I was visiting there. 
Actually, ironically, it was I had just gotten out of school and I was looking at different places to live. And I looked what was happening in Atlanta and I said no way in hell. Like, I'm I'm looking somewhere else. I was like, it's not gonna happen. I was like, This is crazy town. 
Right? So, you know, that was me, like, peaking behind the curtain at the great and wonderful odds a little bit. So, like, this is the way this city runs. I went part of it. And

Speaker 0: I'd like and I and I think what you mean to say, Ellie, is that with that we love all of our listeners from Atlanta, and we would love to come visit you now that the Olympics are old.

Speaker 1: And now that the Olympics are long gone. You know? God bless you. God bless Atlanta. Yeah. 
Atlanta. Atlanta now is fine. Cool aquarium. You can get coke there. Like, yeah. 
It's a great place. Okay. Anyway, as with any Olympic Games, a number of cities pitched the International Olympic Committee or the IOC. Right? So they're they're headquartered in Switzerland, a Lausanne Switzerland, and, you know, they're always fielding these pitches from different cities. 
Right? So the Olympic Games in nineteen seventy six were the twelfth. And when I say twelfth, I mean, x I I. It's like the Super Bowl. It's official. 
It's Roman numerals. Right?

Speaker 0: Right. Right. That makes it fancy.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It does. Well, you know, it's international. Everybody knows what XII means.

Speaker 0: And the Romans were big in the pro football, I think.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 0: Of course, in Olympic Games, winter games.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, they yeah. They were huge into the Winter Olympics. Yeah.

Speaker 0: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: That meant that Jamaican's.

Speaker 0: So who so you you mentioned some of the other contenders? Who were some of the

Speaker 1: illegal contenders? Okay. So there were outside of the United States, there were a number of cities that toss their hats into the the Olympic ring. See what I did there? Boom.

Speaker 0: Boom. Yeah. That was that was brilliant. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 1: you know It's a gift, man.

Speaker 0: I can't I can't wait to say I know you when your comedy writing career takes up.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Conan O'Brien call me. Told me. Okay. 
So some of these Olympic cities were and and for anyone from these places, I apologize in advance for my hamfisted pronunciations. Sayon, s I o n, Sayon, Switzerland, Tampa, t a m p e r e, Finland, And I think it's Vancouver. Is how you

Speaker 0: say it Vancouver? Vancouver. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Canada. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will it's it's a it's a, you know, it's a match trick spelling, so I'm not really sure, you know, how to how to convert it. 
But

Speaker 0: sorry. You sound a bell right, though.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I was you know, I've been out in the boat.

Speaker 0: Hey.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry, Canadian listeners. It was it was nice having you. Come this far in the episode.

Speaker 0: We'll we'll join you with the Atlanta

Speaker 1: Yeah. We're really many. We're ban a thousand here. There were a number of US cities as well, so one of them was lake LasSA, New York. So we know how that ended for Lake Plaza, of course, they got the Olympics four years later. 
The Winterland Right. Salt Lake City, Utah, that may sound familiar. We also know how it ended for them. You know, they got the Olympics a a number of years later. Seattle, Washington, to the best of my knowledge, they've never hosted Olympics.

Speaker 0: They got coffee.

Speaker 1: They they get yeah. They got Starbucks, so that was a good consolation prize. Yeah. On Grange. Okay. 
But the city I wanna talk to you about today is none other than the mile high city of Denver, Colorado. Does that ring a bell with the Olympics? Does that do you think Olympics and when you think host cities in the United States, does Denver, is that one of the cities that pops into your head?

Speaker 0: No. I'm I'm sorry it doesn't, but that I I may just not know that much about it. But no. I don't I don't think I've ever heard of Denver hosting the Olympics.

Speaker 1: There's a reason for that.

Speaker 0: Oh, is this the juicy part of the story?

Speaker 1: It is. But You know what? No. No. No. 
I am gonna leave it as a cliffhanger. I wanna hear a little bit about your choice and then we will come back and I'll I'll spill the tea a little bit with this.

Speaker 0: Okay. I see what you did there. Well, that I'm eager to hear about the seventy six Endbrook Austria Olympics. And I am just a few years later, Elliott, I chose the nineteen eighty four a l a l a Los Angeles Olympics. And the reason why I thought about that first was I was I was in design school at the time. 
And obviously, the Olympics have a lot of international influence. It certainly had a big influence on me. It was one of the first times I remember seeing a comprehensive design platform. Turns out It wasn't just me that had missed that. This was one of the first times they had actually done it. 
But let me give you a little bit of starting here. They actually had an emblem that was created by Robert Myles Runyon the stars in motion. You're probably you've seen it. It's like three different stages of stars. It's red, white, and blue. 
Bob Runyon says he went through about thirty five hundred sketches to get to that.

Speaker 1: Yes. I am familiar with this low in fact, I had a I had a beach towel with this logo on it. So I'm I'm familiar with it at a very, very large size. It's a, you know, the time it's probably about as as big as

Speaker 0: I was. Yeah.

Speaker 1: But it remind it's kinda like if the American flag and, like, the old school eighteen t logo, the little the like step and repeat kinda globe logo. It was almost like if they had a if they had a baby, it would have been this logo. That's what it kinda reminds me of.

Speaker 0: Well, it's interesting that you put it like that because that was actually one of the problems with it too is It was felt like that that emblem was way too nationalistic to represent the international Olympic Games. Now it was used obviously -- Mhmm. -- but it was red, white, and blue. So it was used sort of a selling official merchandise like beach towels, like you said. Yeah. 
But then they hired Debra assessment to do the whole design system and the whole environmental graphics and the promotion. And that's the work that we probably all recall when we think about nineteen eighty four and Los Angeles SoCal new wave if you will. SoCal, POMO, post Modern Elliott.

Speaker 1: Man, that's a that's a lot of Port Manto

Speaker 0: abbreviated No, ma'am. Well, we have to say SoCal Pomo now if we're gonna talk about the LA Olympics.

Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Does anyone in SoCal refer to those games

Speaker 0: by that move?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Is that like a thing there?

Speaker 0: Well, yeah. Everything I read that all they said was it was it was NewWave's SoCal Puma.

Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah.

Speaker 0: I mean, let's just As far as you know, everything I read was at.

Speaker 1: How how

Speaker 0: much did you read? Well, well, you you know, enough. But you used to talk a little bit about how the the the cities themselves. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about how they chose LA, and then I'll come back later and tell you a little bit more about the design system and Deborah Sussman who ended up doing that. But why LA in nineteen eighty four? 
And for those of you who weren't around in nineteen eighty four, it's exactly the way you think it would be if you listen to Madonna records and watch the BratPack movies. It was it was very colorful, it was very bright, It was very geometric. Anyway, so LA was awarded the the bid for the to be the host city in nineteen seventy eight. So they did it, you know, quite a few years in advance, but get this Elliott. The bid was only between two cities. 
Because at the time in the seventy two Munich Olympics, the murder of the Israeli

Speaker 1: anthem really

Speaker 0: put a black spot on the Olympics. And then you're talking about the Winter Olympics of seventy six, but the Summer Olympics in Montreal in seventy six were a financial disaster.

Speaker 1: Yes. So

Speaker 0: so there were only two cities that wanted to host the Olympics. One was LA, and the other one was Tehran, Iran. So I don't know if you really if you call things that were happening around nineteen seventy eight in Iran. I recall they weren't good. They weren't good. 
That's true. Some shit went down as what happened. So, ultimately, the Tehran bid was withdrawn. Due to growing revolution policy in the Iranian government. So this is when the shah was ousted and then later nineteen seventy nine, hostages were taken. 
Mhmm. And, anyway, so that we're not talking about that yet. So Tada, oddly enough. LA won the bid, and that's important points. So so Elliott, here's the lesson. 
Is that's how you win a game, man. You bump out the other competition and cause revolution and then you just win that way. You own it that way.

Speaker 1: So you're saying that you think the Civic group that put together the bid for the Olympics in LA was responsible for the upheaval halfway around the world?

Speaker 0: I'm I'm not gonna go on record as the saying that, but you know, things happen.

Speaker 1: Right? Yeah. True.

Speaker 0: Things happen. I mentioned that nineteen eighty four was sort of smacking the new wave movement. I remember Memphis City. Completely. Mean, it was all like, anything goes. 
Right?

Speaker 1: MTV was kind oftics and was really coming on strong. You know, this is the era of Miami Place that was around the sun. Everything was neon, everything was bright.

Speaker 0: Everything. Wonderful. Slick.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I gotcha.

Speaker 0: You said two you said two really important things there that I wanna fill out a a little bit. So you said corporate slick first of all. And the eighty four Olympics in LA were a widely considered to be the most financially successful Olympics.

Speaker 1: Really?

Speaker 0: Yeah. Due to low construction costs because, you know what they did? They reused the LA stadium --

Speaker 1: Yeah. The carnival. -- first time. Yeah. Yeah. 
From what? The thirty thirty two.

Speaker 0: Yes. Like, I wanted to say thirty two also, but but yeah, I couldn't I didn't write that down, but it was in the thirties. So they reused that. So construction cost was down. And this was sort of the start of a lot of private funding and sponsorships too for the Olympics. 
So everything was like the official the official

Speaker 1: side of the crowd.

Speaker 0: Yeah. And the official sweater of the official toe nail clipper of so much so that they profited over two hundred and fifty million dollars from the Olympics.

Speaker 1: Who is they like the city of LA or

Speaker 0: the the city of LA. The well, I I don't know. I don't wanna say the committee, but but yeah. I guess that would it would have to be the city of LA and the organizing committee and LA.

Speaker 1: Okay. So I want people to drop a pin in that little data point that you just mentioned because that is going to be relevant later on when I continue to tell my story.

Speaker 0: Okay. Cool. And then the last thing I'm gonna say and will continue to your story is you also you mentioned sort of the look of the eighty four Olympics was so of the time. It was Miami vice. It was synthesizers. 
It was Brad Pack movies. So here's just some of the songs from that that era that were hit songs. And I'm gonna say soundtracks ruled the airwaves back then. See if you remember any of these songs, Elliot. I can dream about you. 
Dan Hartman -- Yeah. -- from streets of fire. Yeah. There's no stopping us.

Speaker 1: Ain't no stopping us now.

Speaker 0: No. That's a different one. This one's stopped. There's no stopping us from the hit movie. I know one of your favorites breaking.

Speaker 1: Oh, Well, I'm more of a fan of a break into electric boogaloo.

Speaker 0: Well, yeah. I know. That's one of the rare ones like godfather to where the

Speaker 1: Empire strikes back. Yeah. It's it's it's known first. It's known as the Empire strikes back upgrade dancing movies.

Speaker 0: Yeah. It is. And and then finally, a couple other soundtracks that were dominating the airwaves little ditties from footloose and when dov's cry from purple rain. So massive soundtrack, movie, music, all happening about that time slickly produced as you said before. So that is what the world was hearing and seen in the summer of nineteen eighty four.

Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is you're talking about this. I was just thinking about other cultural things that were coming on the scene that really represented like fitness and athletic activity. Think about Jane Fonda workouts -- Yeah. -- videos -- Yeah. -- leg worn farmers, jazzercise, you know, all of this stuff that was highly branded and and commoditized and very, very packaged. 
And really, this the eighties This was around the time, you know, the late seventies really when LA landed the games. Going into the eighties. The other thing that was happening in pop culture was when really not only music, but you mentioned movie soundtrack. So, you know, the

Speaker 0: main

Speaker 1: two products from Los Angeles, you know, entertainment, music, movies, are, you know, these blockbuster albums these blockbuster movies. They're all getting exported around the world. Right? So the world is increasingly being introduced to American culture in these snackable sort of pop culture formats. Like a little microwave dinner of American culture. 
Here's this movie footloose. Here's this album. From the movie, you know, all these sorts of things. And so it's interesting. I wonder as you were doing your research on this and and some of the impetus for for some of these things, was it celebrating the city And was it celebrating American culture? 
Like you mentioned, the the the original logo being quote unquote to American and that it was red, white, and blue, and it was aspects of the flag and stars and stripes and so forth.

Speaker 0: That's a great question. It

Speaker 1: certainly, of course, was for an American audience. Right? Because we have to puff her chest out and say, like, look, we have the Winter Olympics four years ago. And now we have the Summer Olympics, America's a pretty great place, or was it more along the lines of what the rest of the world expected out of not only America, but specifically out of Hollywood.

Speaker 0: Well, great observation. And I do have some information about that, and I'm gonna save that for my next segment after I hear a little bit more about yours.

Speaker 1: Oh, man. Another cliffhanger.

Speaker 0: Alright. So I know we're Cliff is really getting hung all over the place here today.

Speaker 1: Speaking of the Olympics six. There aren't nearly enough rings on the bar in front of me right now. That means we haven't even had five beers.

Speaker 0: If I had any say in the matter Elliott, you get a gold medal for barmic speed eating, but I'm not sure that's a sanctioned event.

Speaker 1: Tell you what, while we get online to petition the IOC with some new ideas, grab your cocktail shaker, mix something epic, and meet us back at the bar in just a minute. I, while we have your attention. If

Speaker 0: you wanna learn more about us and the podcast. There are a few ways to do it.

Speaker 1: Visit our website at two designers walk into a bar dot com. All of

Speaker 0: that is spelled out. No numbers. Kind of a long URL. So do yourself a favor and bookmark it. Once you're there, you can find links to more information about the subjects in this episode, our episode archive, and information about both of us. 
Wait. We do want people to visit. Right? Well oh, and look for us on social media. You can find those links on our website as well.

Speaker 1: And while we're at it. If you have a friend who you feel will dig on our rambling,

Speaker 0: tell him or

Speaker 1: her what we're up to. While we can't guarantee that they will rename your friend, we can guarantee they will listen to at least thirty seconds of whatever episode you send them the link to. That's being a little shameless. And speaking of being shameless, it wouldn't be a proper ask. If we didn't mention that if you like what you hear, you can also make a donation via our website. 
We have a Nigerian prince handling all transactions for us.

Speaker 0: In fact, he told us to mention that we have stickers to mail to anyone who donates ten dollars or more. Are we done? We're done. We're done.

Speaker 1: Okay. So let's return Shelby to to Denver, Colorado. Right? Yes. And you had mentioned that when I say Olympic cities, Winter Olympics, United States, you're saying that Denver doesn't pop to the top of your your list like Salt Lake City Light or Lake Lake Plasset Light for example.

Speaker 0: Right.

Speaker 1: Yeah. But there's a reason for that. Okay.

Speaker 0: Okay. Okay. So

Speaker 1: Denver gets the bid, super excited. The Olympics are coming back to the United States. So the snowball, bad punisher. Starts rolling with the design work even in advance of our bid. Right? 
So -- Mhmm. -- if you gotta represent the city, show that you're sophisticated, show that you can compete on a global stage, you're gonna have to hire some pretty heavy hitters to visually rep present your town and what the games are gonna look like, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 0: I would say.

Speaker 1: Okay. So it's the mid it's the mid seventies. Yeah. How about how about a guy who's a pretty noteworthy designer in America but also someone who has international appeal because he actually is from Europe.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds good.

Speaker 1: Maybe maybe a guy Todd, you might be familiar with who this guy is from his work. Does a lot of work with Helvetica He may you you might have encountered some of his work if you've ever ridden the subway in New York City. Oh,

Speaker 0: yeah. Yeah. Magnolia and Associates. Yeah. Massimo. 
Massimo. Yep.

Speaker 1: So your buddy Massimo --

Speaker 0: Yep.

Speaker 1: -- was asked by the City of Denver -- Mhmm. -- to design the logo and the poster for their Olympic bid.

Speaker 0: Was it Badoni or Helvetica?

Speaker 1: It was hell it was it was Helvetica fella. Okay. Good. We're going to San Sarif. Denver

Speaker 0: is the

Speaker 1: west. It's gotta be fresh. It's gotta be new.

Speaker 0: Okay. Got it. Got it. Welding now. Logos done. 
Right?

Speaker 1: Yep. Done. Right? So the website, brand channel, had a great description. So obviously, on our on our episode page, we're going to have pictures of this logo. 
We have a whole backstory about what this looks like. So you guys can jump in and take a look at it. And then in addition to the logo, we there was also a poster done that was kind of derivative the logo. And the reason for that is, you know, they're starting to give away swag. They're starting to get everyone excited about this thing. 
Right? So they're talking about this poster Of course, the colors are red, white, and blue, white paper, red ink, blue ink. And brand channel said, the poster expresses a simple and telegraphic logic. It is coldly precise, yet uplifting five rings, three rows, two columns, two colors, two rules, and Helvetica in two sizes. What else do you need to know?

Speaker 0: That sounds too boring.

Speaker 1: So it had the number seventy six knocked out of a of a red block, you know, in big letters, big Helvetica letters, Chorus had to have the Olympic Rings incorporated into it. You could say it's a little bit modern. Others might say it's a little bit cold. Maybe that's kind of an ironic pun because it is the winner Olympics, but I highly doubted if you if Fosymov and Yellie were were part of our podcast today. But at any rate, this is this is what we went with. 
This is what we have. Right? Okay. So we have our bid. We have, you know, our identity. 
Things are looking good. But you also have to keep in mind this is the year of the bicentennial as we talked about earlier. Right? So, you know, harkening back to our prior episode so about nineteen seventy six, we have the beautiful Bruce Blackburn star that was happening, although it wasn't yet happening at this point. Right? 
It was

Speaker 0: -- Right. -- that

Speaker 1: hadn't that hadn't started yet. But, you know, oddly similar in terms of their their modernistic approach in both cases, Red, white, and blue. It's it's the year of the bison tenth. There there's just a certain logic to this. You know, it kind of goes back to what you mentioned with the original eighty four mark. 
Although at this point, I don't think the US was like self aware enough that this was a problem. I think they were, you know, at least in the back of the mind. So, like, hey, it's our birthday party. Right?

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Like, let's celebrate this.

Speaker 1: Right? Okay. So we had have our our modern logo, but then we also need to have something that's maybe a little bit more approachable and a little bit more friendly Right? Mhmm. So the city also contacts a a a well regarded designer and illustrator named Jean Hoff men. 
So he was living in San Francisco, but he had grown up in Colorado. Mhmm. And so he created a poster with a giant sort of schoolhouse rock style hockey player that was also going to be very appealing to people So it's if the Vignelli poster was a little bit cold, this illustration would be a little bit warmer, a little bit more fun, a little bit more youth driven Right?

Speaker 0: Mhmm.

Speaker 1: We have our bookends. We have our Gene Hoffman illustrated poster. We have our Vignelli kind of modern geometric poster. So life's good. Right? 
It's all coming together. It's all coming together for the city of Denver.

Speaker 0: Mhmm.

Speaker 1: So May twelfth nineteen seventy rolls around. Mhmm. And at a ceremony selection ceremony in Amsterdam, Denver was announced as the chosen city. Okay? Boom, everything starts to explode. 
So the Olympic logo starts to appear on enameled pins, stickers, hat, posters like I mentioned earlier, reports. The bid proposal in the manual, of course, that went to the Olympic Committee. Yeah. And a whole ton of other promotional and marketing materials. Right? 
It worked. It worked. So what happened?

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I thought we were talking about Austria.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Which for those of you who don't have a map handy, Denver and Innsbrook are not close to one another at home.

Speaker 0: So you would say without a shadow of a doubt Denver and Innsbrook are not the same place.

Speaker 1: No.

Speaker 0: Okay. Yeah. So what did happen with Denver?

Speaker 1: Just one problem. So this is where I'm going to return to the pin that we dropped earlier when you talked about the profitability of the LA Olympics.

Speaker 0: Uh-huh.

Speaker 1: Most Olympic games. Drive the host cities in a tremendous tremendous debt. Okay? And the reason for that typically is because all these new facilities need to be built. Right? 
The infrastructure needs to be upgraded. And it takes. These are, you know, they passed bonds. They they do all these sorts of things. But the challenge is a lot of times, all this stuff is used for the Olympic. 
And then it sort of lays fallow after a while. You know, maybe like a university will take over some of it or -- Right. -- you know, it'll become a civic arena after it's used as an Olympic arena. But a lot of these cities, the crush of athletic and just event activity, the number of people who are filling all these places up, that's not sustainable. Mhmm. 
Mhmm. So what happens is a lot of times, it's a great idea in the moment. It's like buying the sombrero when you're in Mexico on spring break. But when you get back to the US, the sombrero isn't such a good idea anymore when you've sovered up a little bit and it's thirty degrees when you step off the airplane. Right?

Speaker 0: Makes sense. Yeah. That's that's a great analogy that many can relate to.

Speaker 1: Yeah. We've all been there, meaning Denver. Meaning New. Yeah. Yeah. 
Okay. Yeah. I mean, somebody. Okay. I I've I've been there. 
Okay. Yeah. By the way, Todd, summers are right around the corner. Do you need a

Speaker 0: arrow. You know, I've got a bunch already. I I I I don't need anymore, but please do continue. So tell me So it sounds like the rest of the world and the selection committee were really high on Denver, but not other people. Not

Speaker 1: It turns out the residents of Colorado. Did not think that this was as good of an idea as the city of Denver and the rest of the world. There was kinda this doughnut around Denver

Speaker 0: -- Yeah. --

Speaker 1: that really wasn't down with this happening, basically. So the hitch was that Colorado voters had to ultimately pass any legislation to fund the games.

Speaker 0: Oh, wow.

Speaker 1: No big deal. Right? You know? Right. I'm sure I'm sure Denver is like, hey, look. 
Who wouldn't want that? State pride, national pride, who wouldn't want this? Yeah. Turns out the voters of Colorado didn't want it. So so no, man. 
So they voted it down. They voted the measure down in a three to two margin. So in other words, for, you know, every two people who voted for it three people voted against it. They said sixty percent of the voters said thanks, but no thanks. And their objections were largely along the lines of what I mentioned earlier, they objected to the cost. 
Mhmm. They objected to the the updates to the infrastructure that is kind of the headache I mentioned Atlanta. Right? Like who wants this stuff? But also keep in mind, this is Colorado. 
And so they really place a high value and rightfully so on the environment there. And they did not think the environmental impact at the end of the day was going to be worth it. So Colorado gives the IOC the Heizmann. Right? Thanks, but no thanks. 
So this was the first time in history that a city was awarded the Olympics, and then ultimately they punted. So This has never happened before. Right? So the international Olympic committee starts scrambling. Okay? 
They don't know what to do. So they returned to Canada, and they they offer the games to Whistler, which is, you know, right outside of Vancouver, you know, British Columbia, and Canada And they're thinking, well, this is gonna be good. It's not too far away from Denver. All things considered. Logistics are pretty similar. 
But also, hey, Canada had put in a bid earlier. Like, so, yeah. You know, they're one

Speaker 0: of the

Speaker 1: runners up, but they should be down with this. Yeah. Turns out Canada wasn't interested. I there. They basically said, yeah, you know, that bid was put in by the prior administration. 
There's been a change in government and we are not interested either. So so now all of a sudden the IOC is the unpopular girl at the dance. Right?

Speaker 0: So so so I am I imagining this correctly that all the cities were sitting around the table and Port Emsbrook didn't put it finger on its nose to be called. It got selected.

Speaker 1: So here okay. So basically, there's there's one more page in this chapter. Right? Okay. So Salt Lake City, good old Salt Lake City, and their their Mormon earnestness, we would like to host the games. 
But the International Olympic Committee at this point said, you know what, we're done with the United States. You guys

Speaker 0: can go

Speaker 1: to hell. No. No. Thanks. So basically, they just returned to Europe, which -- Mhmm. 
-- historically had welcomed the Olympics with more open arms and back to a city that they knew already had everything built out. And it was still in good working order because it was only you know, at that point, it wasn't even a decade old or around decade old. Right?

Speaker 0: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So boom. That's why it went back to Austria. So -- Wow. -- so Denver got so close you know, mile high city, some, you know, I'm sure people living in Denver would say it's a world class city. But, yeah, I've I've been to Denver, a perfectly nice place. 
But one of the things they cannot claim with all their my corporaries and legalized weed is to have hosted an Olympic Games.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Man, that's a lot of backstory drama there for the seventy six Olympics. That there wasn't quite that much. 
Well, I did I did I hadn't I found the opposite thing in in the LA Olympics, as I mentioned earlier, and that there were only two cities that bid and one of them due to revolution was kind of kicked out. But let me talk a little bit about the design system itself of the LA Olympics. And obviously, this stuff is all posted on our website along with some interviews for the by the creators. And speaking of, let me talk a little bit about Deborah Sussman who did the design system and environmental graphic. And promotion. 
Everything except for the emblem that Runyon and Associates did. So Deborah was she was born in Brooklyn. She took classes at Bard College in New York, the Chicago Institute of Art where she earned a degree in graphic design in a program that was run by who Liza Loma whole naj, like the real deal. And This is interesting too. She also attended the Black Mountain School, which is here close to us, Elliot.

Speaker 1: Yes. I don't

Speaker 0: know if you're very familiar with that, but yeah, the folks from Bauhaus, Joseph Albers, Buckminster Fuller, started the this Black Mountain so she attended that as well. Now if that pedigree of education wasn't enough, then she went to work for two guys named Charles and Raynett. No. No. Not b l e e a

Speaker 1: n e z.

Speaker 0: Please

Speaker 1: tell me you didn't say two guys.

Speaker 0: No. I know. Charles and Ray Eames. She went to work for the AIMS company. And then launch she launched her own practice in nineteen sixty eight, and her husband a guy named Paul Priza joined her. 
He was a urban planner. And so when he joined in nineteen seventy two, they had been working together for real a brief time when LA was awarded the the games. And, you know, the thing that I got out of learning from what Deborah assessment, how she got to her solutions. And this goes to the question that you dropped earlier. Like, was it meant to represent the United States? 
Was it meant to represent the city of Los Angeles? And what she says is that she was reflecting on the population and the diversity and the the boldness and loveliness of Los Angeles, and she gained a lot of influence from her travel from indigenous cultures, particularly like Mexico, China, India, places like that that were known for creating great folk art. By people who weren't necessarily looking to have gallery shows, they were doing something and expressing themselves. Mhmm. So the colors that she chose were not red, white, and blue at all. 
She she like jumped in the opposite a pond. It was like magenta and turquoise and bright yellow and, you know, these very vibrant colors combined with black and white checkerboards, which were pretty popular at the time. You remember vans?

Speaker 1: Yeah. So I was gonna say Jeff Spakoli's van,

Speaker 0: Yeah. Fast time at Richmond, a high. Now if all that magnificentness was not enough, she also started the LA chapter of AIGA with this other guy named Saul Bass. I think it's his name. I

Speaker 1: think he did. Yeah. I think he made it big in movies one point.

Speaker 0: He did. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great with a name like Saul Bass. You're not really gonna do much. 
Otherwise,

Speaker 1: Well, I I think he later opened a chain of pro shops.

Speaker 0: Oh, well, I'm glad he finally found happiness and success. So, yeah, her inspiration was diverse indigenous cultures that Brist, Los Angeles, and Southern California. And she combined these with traditional elements that you might find in the US. Such as stars and stripes, but they weren't overly nationalistic. They weren't red, white, and blue. 
They were bold shapes. Patterns, as I said. And in working with the architect, John Jordi, they they created all of these environmental pieces. They created the way finding, and he gave her an interesting bit of advice. And I think this is so cool when they were first starting out.

Speaker 1: Let me let me guess. Did he say never stand up in a canoe?

Speaker 0: That. And then the second thing he said was don't look at this as just you're making signs to tell people what bus to get on. Think about this as the whole you're doing. Like, dream of this as a whole entire system. And he referred to her design scheme as festive federalism, which I think was pretty fun too. 
And I remember I remember this really well. Obviously, I was an adult at the time. And it wasn't until I went back and started doing the research that I recalled. That that emblem felt really disjointed compared to the other graphics of the Olympic Games in LA that It was like one was done by a corporation and one was, you know, really kind of trying to harness the future.

Speaker 1: I think also the other thing is the original logo even though it was like dynamic, I guess, in the way it was rendered -- Yeah. -- it was in a very thick state. Like, it really had nowhere to go. Right. Whereas, what she did was create more of like a kit in it was almost like a bunch of, for lack of a better phrase, Legos, if you will, like different patterns, structures, typography, that could be pieced together in different ways for whatever was appropriate. 
You know, you're not gonna have the sign to the bus that you mentioned earlier feeling like the podium that the winners of an event are standing on.

Speaker 0: Right. Right.

Speaker 1: Like it it has to mayor but they're they have very, very unique purposes. And so they need to be in the same family, but they need to sort of be part of the system that describing.

Speaker 0: Right. And you know, there's a lot of great reasons for that other than just clear signage to help people understand that they're involved. With the Olympics and they need to get on the right bus. But if you think about this, the Olympics are obviously a global event their televised event, and seeing all of this stuff on television, whether it was in Los Angeles, Colosseum, or was in Oxnard or, you know, Northern California where some of them. It all felt like it was the same community. 
It felt like you were watching the same town. Because everything was held together with this design system. And I started out our conversation by saying the eighty four Olympics are not only sort of the first ones to be profitable, but sort of set the tone for creating these design systems that really engulfed the environment as well as the the materials and everything. So it all felt like a cohesive unit. It wasn't just put a logo on something and sell it and now it's part of the Olympics. 
It was have a color palette that you can use, have shapes, have patterns, have logos, have bold signage and things like that that would go on to represent everything for the Olympics. And again, I think what I really loved about this is she had this massive project. And in all total, I think it was about a hundred and fifty designers who had worked who were working together. They even gave them their own building. Away from the Olympic committee so they could be sort of unencumbered. 
But it wasn't just like, let's do a sign to help people get the right bus. It was dream big. Make this part of an event, like, brand this whole thing and dream big. And, like, see yourself in that. And I thought that was really amazing at the time. 
And when I went back and looked at it for the research for this, it really does hold up. Now it is definitely of the time. It is definitely a new wave, Southern California. But it wouldn't look out a place today. That's the great thing about it.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, it's it's really interesting when you were talking about this system being the the visual cues that really binds everything together. Right. I I have this aha moment that probably in the early mid eighties. There were a couple things going on. 
Right? It was really probably the time that a majority of the country had or TV.

Speaker 0: Mhmm. Mhmm.

Speaker 1: So you could really start to take advantage of these colorful graphics like it was really worthwhile. Right. Twenty years prior kinda didn't matter because if you're watching the Olympics at all, it was on a black and white TV probably over the It wasn't cable. So just the fidelity was so much worse. Right?

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Then the other thing is people at VCR. Right? So you could always start taping things. You might go back and watch it later. And so for that reason, you kinda wanted it to look cool and dealing. 
So I tape this. She'll go back and watch it again. Yeah. It looks like it'd be pretty fun.

Speaker 0: Yeah. Yeah. And

Speaker 1: then, of course, you know, you had you know, you're talking about the commercialization aspect. And that reminds me of, you know, you obviously think of weedy's and Bruce Jenner and, like, all these other folks later on after that being on these weedy's boxes. And I just think that the celebration of the athlete in America, you know, these are like quote unquote movie stars of the Olympics. And, you know, some of these people are still around an a. Right? 
Mary Lou Retten. It's still around an a. You know, Patrick Ewing Do you know what is Michael George George? Carl Lewis. Like Carl Lewis. 
Yeah. Like, we remember all of these people. And this is really when the Olympic athlete, you know, I would say Bruce Jenner was probably the first one to, like, really breakthrough and kind of become a household name argument, you know, for the decathlon. But this wasn't even that long after that. And it and it really I think this system helped to serve as an inner retainment platform, if you will, for for these folks and for the country.

Speaker 0: Yeah. It was they referred to it as the stage that they were building for these athletes to perform on. So it would be consistent all over the place.

Speaker 1: So this this begs the question. I know that the the colosseum, of course, as a structure, is there Uh-huh. And I know that the Olympic torch is still there because, you know, they'll light it for other things that they you know, other events they hold because I believe the colosseum was built in the thirties for that original first Olympic Games we talked about. Yeah. And so are there any other remnants. 
I mean, obviously, we have this system, but like if you're bouncing around and I know LA is a town that constantly is reinventing itself. But I keep wondering, are there any other landmarks from the eighty four Olympics? Like, does any of this exist outside of like Chokgis?

Speaker 0: Not really. There's there are some some signage structures, like statues and things like that. But, you know, pretty much it was all done for way finding and and for that particular games. But here's something interesting and we'll post on our website as well. There was a kickstarter program that was launched a couple years ago can't really I don't remember exactly how long, but it wasn't very long ago to actually hold a LA eighty four design retrospective in a gallery where they could assemble a lot of this stuff again for people to see, you know, because obviously, a lot of people weren't around back then, and it was it it had such a significant impact on design of the time as well as future Olympic design. 
So we'll post that and it looks really interesting. So you could actually go in and sort of feel like you had walked back in nineteen eighty four. That

Speaker 1: would be cool. I mean, yeah, I would think that a lot of this stuff ended up in storage. Somewhere. Like, you're not gonna destroy everything. Well, it's really funny. 
This is this is kind of a wonderful way to close the circle, I think. So the almost Olympics that happened in Denver, where is that stuff? Right? Where can you find that? You're right? 
Because I mean, again, this was, you know, created by a couple prominent folks. So actually the Denver public library, and we will post this on the episode page as well. They have everything collected in in the library. So you can go to Denver. Yeah. 
And you can you can review. And then also So there's this guy who calls himself the logo Smith and we'll we'll post his website up here. But he recreates a lot of, like, past corporate systems and, like, Olympic systems and he actually took it upon himself to recreate all of these materials. So believe it or not, if you want one of the stickers. You can get a reproduction of the sticker if you want one of

Speaker 0: the posters.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, it it's very similar to how we posted the link to the bicentennial corporate standards that someone picked up and redid. So it was a wonderful treat to be able to find that and and see that this work between the Denver library and also between this fellow, that the work lives on and that that anybody has access to it.

Speaker 0: That's great. And, you know, speaking of having access, Elliot, I'm a little parched. I could use another trip back to the bar.

Speaker 1: I could too because I would love for you to buy me another drink.

Speaker 0: Of course, I'd be more than happy because you're a gold medal winner to me, Elliott, all the time. Oh,

Speaker 1: well, thank you, Todd. There's no one else I'd rather standing on the podium with.

Speaker 0: As long as I'm a bronze medal.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't say, like, right next to me. Like, actually, you can you hold my other metals like, show them to me while I'm up on the podium. Oh,

Speaker 0: that I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: Hey, you know, for for you any thing.

Speaker 0: You're you're too kind. You are you are unanimous, man.

Speaker 1: I I don't even know how to spell

Speaker 0: that. Alright. Here we go. Bye.

Speaker 1: Bye, guys.